[WSF-Discuss] Ukraine Crisis: An Update

Mikael Book book at kaapeli.fi
Tue May 13 03:23:49 CDT 2014

Sukla, thank you.

Yes, I am free to take my pick, and I am also dependent on the work of the 
mainstream journalists in London and New York. Yet I am not sure I need 
to receive updates from the BBC via this channel (WSF-Discuss), too, as I 
only need to open my radio receiver to get them anyway.

I am not reproaching you for one-sidedness. "We don't see things as they 
are, we see them as we are." (Anais Nin) The sentence covers the Ukraine 

But how does the Ukraine crisis and our efforts to understand and explain 
relate to the process we call "social forum" and our original (?) 
discussions on this list?

You mentioned Marx. Good. But between Marx and us is Sarajevo 1914 and 
what happened thereafter.  Sarajevo is in Bosnia. Kagarlitsky: "The events 
of the spring of 2014 had to happen sooner or later. The precursors to 
these developments did not even take place in Ukraine, but in Bosnia, 
where in defiance of all conventions crowds of enraged workers and 
unemployed came onto the streets in opposition to the established system, 
uniting under common slogans and shattering traditional political schemas 
based on the division of society into ethno-religious groups."

Could it be that, like Marx, and like the workers and unemployed in 
Bosnia, we need to be less conventional, less trendy, less à la mode. 
Maybe we need to use our internet to discuss the meaning of that word, 

Best regards,


Mikael Böök * book at kaapeli.fi * gsm +358(0)-44 5511 324 *
http://www.kaapeli.fi/book/  * http://blogi.kaapeli.fi/book/ *

On Tue, 13 May 2014, Sukla Sen wrote:

> Dear Mikael Böök,
> While it is true that I've to largely depend on the Western media to know,
> and disseminate, what's happening over there (Marx was known to have spent
> much of his time poring over literature in the British Library in London -
> the reason being too obvious), it appears that you've completely missed my
> occasional brief forwarding notes, let alone detailed comments from various
> Leftwing sources including from within Ukraine.
> The fact is that there are very many divergent voices emanating from within
> the Left - not one.
> You're free to take your pick - from amongst these, or from elsewhere.
> Sukla
> On 13 May 2014 13:03, Mikael Book <book at kaapeli.fi> wrote:
>> Dear Sukla Sen,
>> your posting is (despite what reads on its subject line) only an update of
>> the views of the mainistream Western Press. For informed and balanced views
>> on the Ukraine Crisis we need to read Boris Kagarlitsky and Volodymyr
>> Ishchenko in Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal and similar
>> less widely spread publications.
>> Kagarlitsky: "The arguments of the Kremlin in this dispute have not
>> worked, and cannot work, for the simple reason that Western politicians for
>> the present are not especially interested in what official Russia is
>> thinking or doing. These politicians know perfectly well that there is no
>> Russian invasion, and this, precisely, is the main international problem
>> for them. To admit as much means admitting that the government in Kiev has
>> gone to war on its own people. To speak of the Donetsk Peoples Republic as
>> an independent political phenomenon in impossible, since this would require
>> posing the question of the reasons for the popular protest, and listing its
>> demands. The talk of Kremlin agents and of the ubiquitous Russian troops
>> who are impossible to discover, but who have occupied close to half of
>> Ukraine without firing a shot or even showing themselves on Ukrainian
>> territory is playing the same propaganda role against the Donetsk republic
>> as was played in the anti-Bolshevik propaganda of 1917 by stories of German
>> spies and of money from the German General Staff."
>> Ischenko: "If the events will lead to full-scale civil war in Ukraine, and
>> then to full-scale Russian intervention, and then to the Third World War,
>> who will we need to blame for the end of the human civilization? The crazy,
>> irrational capitalist system that inevitably produces competing
>> imperialisms. This is the root of the problem not only for Ukraine, but for
>> the entire world."
>> Personally, I should like to add that Capitalism is not the *only* "root
>> of the problem" just like the atomic armaments are not *exclusively* a
>> product of the class struggle.
>> Anyway, when did we last have a discussion about the World Social Forum on
>> this list? How does the Ukraine crisis relate to our *main subject*?
>> Is *peace* at all one of the "actionable themes" or "axes" of the social
>> forum?
>> Or is *peace* obsolete as a concept and a goal of social activism?
>> No, it is not:
>> Has the Internet created the prerequiste for a more enduring world peace?
>> How can the library contribute to "the sympathetic world spirit" (Bowerman
>> 1915) which will certainly also be needed?
>> These questions are to be discussed against the background of the recent
>> NetMundial-conference on "Internet governance" in Sao Paulo.
>> More about Peace Event Sarajevo via http://p2014.eu and about the
>> workshop Peace and the Internet via http://is.gd/KluLtD
>> Regards,
>> Mikael
>> Mikael Böök * book at kaapeli.fi * gsm +358(0)-44 5511 324 *
>> http://www.kaapeli.fi/book/  * http://blogi.kaapeli.fi/book/ *
>> http://blog.spinellisfootsteps.info/
>> On Tue, 13 May 2014, Sukla Sen wrote:
>>  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27386838
>>> 13 May 2014 Last updated at 06:11
>>> Ukraine crisis: Germany launches fresh diplomatic bid
>>> Armed activists patrolled a rally in Luhansk after the referendum on
>>> self-rule
>>> Germany's Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier is due in Kiev amid
>>> fresh attempts to find a diplomatic solution to the Ukraine crisis.
>>> On Monday, pro-Russia activists in the east declared a separate state
>>> which
>>> wanted to join Russia after holding votes on self-rule on Sunday.
>>> Earlier, a separatist leader called on Russia to "absorb" the eastern
>>> Ukrainian region of Donetsk.
>>> Kiev, the US and EU say the referendums in Donetsk and Luhansk were
>>> illegal.
>>> Moscow annexed Ukraine's southern autonomous republic of Crimea in March
>>> following a controversial referendum, and Kiev fears a similar outcome in
>>> Donetsk, Luhansk and parts of southern Ukraine.
>>> The BBC's Richard Galpin reports from Donetsk on the fears of some
>>> pro-unity residents
>>> Russia has called for the results of Sunday's vote to be "implemented".
>>> Meanwhile, armed separatists remain in control of many official buildings
>>> across eastern Ukraine.
>>> Mr Steinmeier, who attended a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels
>>> on Monday, reiterated that he considers the referendums illegal, adding:
>>> "We cannot, and must not, take it seriously."
>>> His spokesman, Martin Schaefer, said Tuesday's trip was to support a
>>> national "round table" under the auspices of the Organisation for Security
>>> and Co-operation (OSCE).
>>> The OSCE later issued a statement saying Russian President Vladimir Putin
>>> was "supportive" of its roadmap to defuse the crisis in Ukraine.
>>> Mr Steinmeier has engaged in months of diplomacy over the crisis while
>>> German Chancellor Angela Merkel has held repeated phone calls with
>>> President Putin.
>>> German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier hopes to mediate in the
>>> Ukraine crisis
>>> Separatists in Luhansk declared a "sovereign state" after the referendum
>>> The Ukrainian army has set up checkpoints around Luhansk and other eastern
>>> cities
>>> The EU foreign ministers added 13 people and two businesses to its
>>> sanctions list for "undermining or threatening" Ukraine's sovereignty.
>>> Those singled out include President Putin's first deputy chief of staff,
>>> Vyacheslav Volodin; the self-declared mayor of Sloviansk, Vyacheslav
>>> Ponomaryov; and two Crimean companies.
>>> More than 60 individuals now face EU travel bans and asset freezes.
>>> Election pledge
>>> Germany, France and the UK also suggested that Russia would be further
>>> punished if it undermined Ukraine's planned presidential elections on 25
>>> May.
>>> A joint statement said the EU would "pay particular attention to all
>>> parties' attitude and behaviour towards the holding of free and fair
>>> presidential elections when deciding about possible future measures".
>>> Separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk say 89% and 96% respectively voted in
>>> favour of "self-rule" in the referendums.
>>> Pro-Russia activists in Luhansk declared independence after the referendum
>>> there.
>>> Self-declared Donetsk People's Republic leader Denis Pushilin urged Moscow
>>> to listen to the "will of the people".
>>> He said he was not calling for Russian military intervention, but that
>>> "peacekeepers" may be needed. Moscow has not responded to his comments.
>>> Nato believes some 40,000 Russian troops are deployed near Ukraine's
>>> border, although Moscow says they have been pulled back.
>>> --
>>> Peace Is Doable
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> -- 
> Peace Is Doable

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