[WSF-Discuss] Montreal Will Play Host To the World Social Forum in August 2016 : "The traditional North-South distinction today no longer makes sense"

Carminda Mac Lorin carmindaa at gmail.com
Fri Apr 10 12:48:15 CDT 2015


Thanks a lot Jai for all this!

I'm formulating a first response that I will send this weekend. There are
so many people asking for responses and wanting to help, so we are a little
bit overwhelmed, but should be soon able to overcome this first flow coming
out of the announcement of the WSF in Montreal.

This is a collective process, so your input (and all the others!) is
fundamental, specially bringing forward the perspective First Nations (as
the WSF will be indeed held in their territory!), so please don't hesitate
to get involved in the mobilization and articulation process. Idle No More
and Femme Autochtones du Quebec are actively involved in this, but
definitely we need more help to articulate and promote a WSF in which First
Nations will be central and confortable.

I'll get back to you very soon!

All the best,

Carminda Mac Lorin


On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Jai Sen <jai.sen at cacim.net> wrote:

> Friday, April 10 2015
>
>
>
> Dear Carminda
>
>             Please allow me to problematise my own post a little earlier
> today, and to add one question.
>
>             In short, and aside from the questions I have asked below
> (which I am of course hoping you will also address) :
>
> *Where are the First Nations / Indigenous Peoples of Turtle Island in the **Montréal
> Forum ?  *Especially given, as I said below, that to my understanding for
> Mohawks Montréal, like Ottawa, is unceded and therefore occupied territory,
> and given the historical juncture that Canada is at after the challenges
> posed by the Idle No More movement and more generally by the contemporary
> rise and resurgence of Indigenous Peoples / First Nations on Turtle Island ?
> And given, as I have said, that the Montréal Forum is arguably going to be
> the biggest gathering of people concerned with social and political issues
> in the history of Turtle Island ?  If this is not addressed directly (and
> worse, is ignored), then at least to my understanding the Montréal Forum
> will itself in a sense be only contributing to again occupying their lands,
> even if only temporarily !
>
> *What is the position of the FSM 2016’s Organising Collective on the
> question of so-called ‘illegal immigrants’ in Canada*, and of ‘immigrants
> of colour’ and peoples of colour, and of the restrictions that the
> government already has in place in relation to such peoples, and on the
> implications for such peoples as well for activists, etc, of Bill C-51 ?
>
> My sense is that these are not ‘thematic’ questions, but structural, and
> therefore cannot be seen simply as whether or not participating
> organisations say they want to discuss these issues, or not.  So how is
> the Montréal Forum proposing to address these questions ?
>
> Last : *How is the **Montréal Forum building on the energies generated by
> the Peoples’ Social Forum that took place in Ottawa*, on unceded
> Algonquin territory, in August 2014 ?  In the above terms – the role and
> position in the Forum of Indigenous Peoples and of Peoples of Colour –, and
> more generally ?
>
>             With warm greetings, and with thanks once again !
>
>
>
>             Jai
> On Apr 10 2015, at 8:23 PM, Jai Sen <jai.sen at cacim.net> wrote:
>
> Friday, April 10 2015
>
> *Worlds in movement, worlds of movement…*
>
> *The 2016 **Montréal** Forum in movement…*
>
>
> *An interview with activist Carminda Mac Lorin around the World Social
> Forum in Canada : **“The traditional North-South distinction today no
> longer makes sense”*
>
>             Thanks for posting this, Jasper !   Since people like me are
> however somewhat disadvantaged since we don't also speak Spanish, I’ve done
> a quick and rough translation into English, which I think will make the
> interview easier to access.
>
> After going through the interview, I have to say that while at one level
> it's great to see this interview, and to feel the enthusiasm and
> excitement, and also good to sense the direction in which the person being
> interviewed sees the dynamics and politics of organising the WSF in
> Montreal, on unceded Mohawk territory, on the other hand her answers are,
> to be honest, unfortunately – and disappointingly - very generalised; for
> instance, regarding the composition of the organising group, the
> ‘Collective’, and where her answer is not very informative and in fact
> leaves the reader almost as blank as before.  Assurances can’t take the
> place of facts !
>
> But it's perhaps the responsibility of the person interviewing to have
> pushed the question further, requesting more details.  And I also accept
> that an interview isn't perhaps the right place for giving a long list of
> names, but that’s certainly possible on a listserve like this.
>
> I’m therefore copying this post again to the person interviewed, Carminda
> Mac Lorin, with the request Carminda, that you please now give us a list of
> the members of your organising Collective, and their affiliations, so that
> all of who are interested in the WSF, and specifically in the FSM in
> Montréal, can get a concrete sense of who constitutes this group, and of
> course how this corresponds to all the debates that have been taking place
> for so long in and around the WSF about accountability, representativeness,
> etc, of ‘official’ bodies in the WSF.  Thanks.  And of course in relation
> to the capacity to organize such a major event.
>
> Or, and as you suggest, you have / the Collective has another basis for
> constituting your Collective (other than representivity, etc), then please
> also give us that, so that we can understand.  Thanks !
>
> Similarly, Carminda, while your saying that you are / the Collective is
> ‘outraged’ by the difficulties people have for moving around the world, and
> that in relation to the very strong likelihood that people (read
> ‘activists’) from elsewhere will have huge difficulties in getting visas
> for getting into Canada for the FSM 2016, you will “mobilize international
> civil society” are of course good to hear, on the other hand I feel I have
> to say that I think we really do need more concrete and specific analysis
> and proposals from you as organizers, on this issue !
>
> Taking into account the actual impact of international campaigns on
> different issues, do you really believe that a Canadian government and
> bureaucracy that is bringing in something like Bill C-51 will pay any
> attention at all to the appeals of ‘international civil society’ about
> giving visas to activists ?  That this will be effective ?  Is this all
> that you plan to rely on ?
>
> Can you therefore please comment more specifically on this issue here, on
> this list ?
>
> Finally, and especially given that Montréal, like Ottawa, is occupied
> territory [to decode this for those not familiar with this tension, meaning
> that white settlers have historically occupied and settled in this region
> of what has come to be called Canada, but that it still belongs to the
> Indigenous Peoples – in the case of Ottawa, the Algonquins, and in the case
> of Montréal, the Mohawks], and given that you say the Indigenous Peoples
> are members of your Collective, and given the historical juncture that
> Canada is at after the challenges posed by the Idle No More movement and
> more generally by the contemporary rise of Indigenous Peoples / First
> Nations, I am personally very, very surprised indeed that you have not
> referred to this conflict and tension at all in your interview, let alone
> it being absolutely central to the organising of the Montréal Forum !
>
> Can you therefore please comment on this here ?  What is the position of
> your Collective on this crucial issue ?
>
> And on any other issues that you feel are important, of course.
>
> Given what I sense is the importance and sensitivity of these issues in
> Canada and on Turtle Island today – and given that the Montréal Forum is
> arguably going to be the biggest gathering of people concerned with social
> issues in the history of Turtle Island -, I am taking the liberty of
> copying this post to the Indigenous Peoples I know on Turtle Island, and
> more broadly across the world, so that they too can see and consider your
> responses, and perhaps also come in here with further questions, comments,
> etc.
>
> Thanks !
>
>             JS
>
> PS : To all those copied here who are would like to respond, can I invite
> you to consider subscribing to the main list on which I post, WSFDiscuss,
> so that your questions, comments etc get automatically posted ?  *To
> subscribe, all you have to do is to simply send an empty email* to
> worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net !
>
> (*WSFDiscuss *is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of
> information and views on the experience, practice, and theory of social and
> political movement at any level (local, national, regional, and global),
> including the World Social Forum.  Started in 2005 as a list around the
> WSF, it has now – and especially during 2012-2014 - matured into a
> discussion around movement more generically.  It now has a great list
> membership, with people from many parts of the world including activists,
> students and researchers, teachers, and others, and importantly, located
> both near 'the centre' and towards 'the margins’ of societies as they today
> are.)
>
>
>
> [Google translation, modified :]
>
>
> *An interview with activist Carminda Mac Lorin around the World Social
> Forum in Canada : *
> *The traditional North-South distinction today no longer makes sense *
> Sergio Ferrari
> Rebelion
> *Energize the dialogue between the FSM and the ‘new movements’. Renew the
> FSM with new social practices. Add other cultural and youth languages to
> the DSM process.*
>
>
> The main alterglobalisation meeting will be held in August 2016 for the
> first time in the ‘North’, geographically.  Montreal, Canada, expects to
> host thousands of participants, invite about five thousand organizations,
> and ensure the realization of fifteen hundred activities. Beyond the
> quantitative, there are other conceptual objectives and policies, explains
> Carminda Mac Lorin, 32, member of the ‘FSM 2016 Montreal Collective’. “It
> is important to strengthen the role the WSF has played so far,
> incorporating the renewal of social protest practices that have emerged
> since 2011”, stresses the young social activist. “We urgently need spaces
> where we can discuss the new political cultures”, she says.
>
>
> *Q: How did you receive the decision of the World Social Forum in late
> March, with the International Council giving your collective the
> responsibiity to orgfanise the next edition of the WSF in August 2016 *
>
> CML: With surprise and joy. We saw some hesitation on the part of the WSF
> International Council. As candidates and protagnosits, we are two years
> old, and very active and very motivated. I am very proud to have achieved
> this confirmation. And while we received great support from many
> organizations, we are aware that entry into Canada is [going to be] a very
> serious problem. But we want to take this sruggel head on and ensure that
> everyone who wants to participate can do so...
>
> *The WSF is facing a paradigm shift*
>
> Q: *Does holding the WSF in the geographic North for the first time
> entails a paradigm shift in the dynamics of the WSF ?...*
>
> A: Today, the South-North distinction no more makes sense. There is a
> ‘North; in the South, and there are also ‘Souths’ in the North. Most
> fracture does not preclude countries either side of the eqauotr. But in all
> societies, there is an opposition between elites who monopolize wealth and
> power with the resst of the people who barely survive. Democracy has given
> way to a global oligarchy that imposes its rules everywhere. Everything
> became much more apparent after the 2008 crisis, and triggered a wave of
> protests from 2011 that has now expanded to every corner of the planet. The
> Arab Spring, the Spanish indignados, the Greek protesters, the Occupy
> movement in New York, Tel Aviv, Berlin, Rio, Montreal, Istanbul,
> Sarajevo... The people are mobilized, are indignant and insurgent both
> above and below the equator...
>
> *Q: A significant element of your Collective is the youth, but with a
> solid political analysis ...*
>
> A: We are all young. Some of body, otehrs of soul. We are between 18 and
> 65 years, but we all feel young. We have a fresh and renewed energy. In
> Quebec, activsist have a very recent history of struggle.  This incoudes
> the Occupy movement from the end of 2011, when many of us were involved,
> without saying that we have the ownership rights over that mobilization. We
> also participated in the Quebec Spring, which provided a wide platform for
> political reflection. I feel that these experiences are deeply embedded and
> inspired by the dynamics of the FSM and its principles, which has been with
> us since 2001, from after its birth in Porto Alegre.
>
> *"We integrate all the history and values ​​of the FSM"*
>
> *Q: How is this proximity between Collective and your struggles and the
> WSF process manifested ?*
>
> A: In Quebec in particular, and in Canada in general, there is a long
> history of social, local, regional and national forums. Broadly, this
> incoudes the Forums of 2007 and 2009 in Quebec, with thousands of
> participants and a great capacity for mobilization to organize them. The
> story is long; from the beginning are many Canadians who have participated
> in every edition of the WSF.
>
> *Q: Who is taking part in the Collective for the WSF 2016 in Quebec ?*
>
> A: It's a very interesting dynamic. We are very keen to not lose sight of
> the perspective of individuals. Although we belong to organizations, we
> want to promote a somewhat autonomous process with dynamics that make
> citizens involved in the construction of society. The Collective is
> comprised of people from big organizations and also young girls; of
> students; and of members of the First Nations of Quebec and Canada. It is a
> plural and diverse group.
>
> *Q: Can you evaluate the process leading to the WSF in Montreal and the
> ability to integrate that alterglobalsit dynamics and new groups and
> ‘occupy’ movements ?*
>
> A: Absolutely. It is one of our goals. We think it is important to create
> platforms to ensure an active dialogue with these ‘new social movements’ as
> they are called, and institutionalized civil society. These are new
> platforms for dialogue, and debate is needed. Another key challenge is to
> bring togegehr political cultures with different languages.
>
> *Q: Are you saying that you want to integrate new forms of cultural
> expression into this global justice movement ?*
>
> A: Yes ! Art is the best metaphor of cultures. But cultures are broader
> than art. We also need spaces where they can discuss the new political
> cultures. While there are differences in language, we are convinced that we
> all strive for the same goals : Promoting the dignity of people; reduce the
> increasingly significant social inequalities, etc. We must fight together,
> inter-generationally, inter-culturally. And we think the WSF in Montreal
> will be a great opportunity to renew with originality this ongoing process.
> We want to deepen the achievements of the WSF as an amplifier of struggles
> and meeting space for movement. But the next edition should consider
> renewing social response practices that emerge since 2011.
>
> *Immigration restrictions : a challenge for organizers*
>
> *Q: The restrictive immigration policy of the current Canadian authorities
> will be an obstacle for representatives of Latin America, Asia, or Africa
> to participate ... How will you solve this ?*
>
> A: We are outraged by the problems that people have to move freely. It is
> absurd that goods move smoothly and people do not. It is a discriminatory
> policy and we oppose it. Many tell us that it will be difficult to get
> visas for participants ... We are aware that the fight against global
> system is difficult, but that does not stop us or demoralize us. The visas
> : Instead of considering it an obstacle, we see it as an opportunity to
> thematise. And we try to mobilize, and we will call the mobilization of
> international civil society on this challenge. We want to move towards a
> world where borders do not correspond to current [delimitstions].
>
> *Q: Where will the WSF 2016 specifically ? In the center of Montreal
> itself ?*
>
> A: We have developed some ideaa on this in the Collective. We envisage a
> ‘global social territory’ of about a mile size, in downtown Montreal,
> incorporating the three major universities. We have the neighborhood where
> the shows are performed in summer the big festivals and is a space that is
> ready for socializing art. We also want to incorporate a neighborhood with
> gender and sexual diversity, which will be called ‘the Village’. All this
> already exists : This is Montreal ! The idea is to get there. We would like
> to incorporate a youth camp on an island or in a native territory. And we
> intend to extend the Forum in many local and regional forums. We imagine
> that the opening march could end in a suburb to avoid the criticism that we
> always mobilized in the inner city...
>
> *Q: Any final thoughts ?...*
>
> A: I'm doing a PhD on the dynamics of the WSF and the relationship with
> what are called ‘new movements’.  And I am convinced that concepts such
> as mainstreaming, horizontality, and pluralism are essential in critiquing
> the system. Sometimes it is not easy to articulate this criticism globally
> because the system is very large.  For isntsnce, ecology, human rights,
> and gender issues. Such huge problems ! But we are convinced that it is
> essential to open spaces for the convergence of all these struggles ... And
> that's one of the great challenges of this process of construction,
> preparation and realization of FSM 2016 project involving a total of four
> years. We began to dream it in March 2013. We are already halfway there. It
> lies ahead of us; our goal is to continue marching...
>
>
>
> *Sergio Ferrari works with the newspaper Le Courrier and with E-CHANGER /
> Comundo Rebellion has posted this article with the author's permission
> through a license from Creative Commons, respecting their freedom to
> publish elsewhere*.
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 10 2015, at 6:08 PM, jasper teunissen <jasperteunissen at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>  In Spanish, Carminda (FSM Montreal Collective) interviewed by Sergio
> Ferrari:
> http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=197462
>
>
> Jai Sen schreef op 6-4-2015 om 9:45:
>
>  PS : My sincere apologies, in my post as below I overlooked responding
> also to the post by Jay Nair (also of Canada), where he makes a very
> important point that is directly relevant to he question we’re talking
> about : The tabling any day now of a draconian ‘Security Bill’ by the
> current government in Canada.  Thanks for making this point, Jay.
>
> I’m pasting in his post below, so that it’s also available to Raphaël
> Canet and Carminda Mac Lorin, and while I'm doing this, (a) Brian
> (Murphy), can I request you to please also come in on this exchange with
> any observations and information you have ?, and (b), to make things more
> concrete, here are some things that readers who still imagine Canada as it
> once used to be – a friendly, open, warm country – might like to take a
> look at :
>
> ‘Bill C-51: Anti-Terrorism Act, 2015’, @
> http://voices-voix.ca/en/facts/profile/bill-c-51-anti-terrorism-act-2015
>
> ‘Bill C-51: 8 things activists and dissenters in Canada need to know’, @
> http://www.canadianprogressiveworld.com/2015/03/19/bill-c-51-8-things-activists-and-dissenters-in-canada-need-to-know/
>
> ‘Bill C-51 Backgrounder #2: The Canadian Security Intelligence Service's
> Proposed Power to 'Reduce' Security Threats Through Conduct that May
> Violate the Law and Charter’, @
> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2564272
>
>             JS
>
>  On Apr 5 2015, at 11:05 PM, Jay Nair <jinair at me.com> wrote:
>
>  Comrades
> We in Canada are going to get the new Bill C-51 Security Bill thrust down
> our throats soon. Be has to consider this Act, if the current Conservatives
> win the next election. Then we will be living in a police state
> Just take note.
> Jay
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>  On Apr 6 2015, at 12:35 PM, Jai Sen <jai.sen at cacim.net> wrote:
>
>  Monday, April 6 2015
>
>
> Greetings !
>
> Since this – creating a parallel open space complementary to official
> bodies where people outside those bodies could critically discuss the WSF –
> was the very reason why the WSFDiscuss list was created in the first place,
> back in 2005, as list admin and one of the founding group I'm of course
> pleased to see this discussion on the 2016 WSF taking place on WSFDiscuss,
> and in particular to have these critical reflections on what ‘Canada’ is
> actually like these days, and these serious suggestions for ‘what is to be
> done’ to get around the very likely roadblocks to activists (and especially
> the seriously militant, and from the North as well as the South) getting in
> to the country.
>
> I think it would be good though, and since the Forum is coming up just
> next year, if we could also hear from the organisers what their thoughts
> are on all this – and even if Patrick, you have already vouched for them !
> I’m therefore copying in here two of the main organisers, Raphaël Canet and Carminda
> Mac Lorin, and would like to invite both of you to please come in on this
> discussion and tell us how you in the Organising Committee for FSM 2016 are
> addressing the issues that have been raised here – and also, in particular,
> what your analysis is with regard to the intolerant climate that has
> emerged in Canada in this general area, and how you are proposing to
> address the possible outcomes of this.  (Please have a look at the thread
> of posts that have come in on this, as below, including from Canadians.)
>
> (I’ve already earlier on invited you both to consider subscribing to
> WSFDiscuss – which would make your posting here much easier and where you
> would yourself then automatically receive all the posts, and I warmly
> invite you to do so here again.  *To subscribe, all you have to do is to
> simply send an empty email* to
> worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net.)
>
> To this, let me add my own two bits.  First, and since I am now in Canada
> for quite a lot of the year, let me say that I agree completely with what
> those who have posted here have said, from Patrick Bond’s opening question
> and expression of concern – and thanks for this, Patrick – to the
> observations from Bill Carroll and Michael Gurstein.  My sense is that
> blocking and screening is a very serious possibility, and as Michael has
> said, this is likely to be so even if the present government is voted out
> in the elections later this year, simply because the systems have got
> seriously set in place.
>
> Two, and while Peter, while it's of course ‘nice’ that you felt you could
> respond to Patrick’s question ‘without even consulting Gina’ [Vargas, who
> for those who don't know this, is not only Peter Waterman’s partner but
> also one of the most senior and most respected members of the WSF’s
> International Council], and give us your / her assurance that the question
> ‘has of course been addressed’, to be very frank I along with others have
> raised this and other questions several times over the past some years,
> with the organisers and with members of the International Council, and I
> anyway have never got, heard, or seen really substantive, comprehensive
> answers.
>
> (Other questions have included : Just what are the reasons that the
> International Council has had for deciding (a) that the 2016 Forum should
> be held in the North, for the first time in the WSF’s history – and
> contradicting and overturning a political-strategic decision made early on
> ?; and (b) to hold it in Montréal ?  And : Just what is the list of all the
> members of the Organising Committee of the Montréal Forum – not just of its
> core group –, and why and how is the IC so confident that this group can
> handle such a major event ?)
>
> In the way that things in the WSF are handled, it’s always been a warm and
> friendly assurance something along the lines of ‘Don't you worry, of course
> we’re handling this !’.  (And in relation to the Committee, the only
> ‘reason’ I've been given for being confident is that ‘It’s full of young
> people !’.  This is certainly a great feature – but seriously, is this
> enough ?)  To now be very frank about this, for me this attitude and kind
> of response has all along been a puzzling, frustrating, and disappointing
> aspect of seeing the Montréal Forum being organised.  To me it just seems
> not serious enough, quite aside from not respecting those who are asking
> questions.
>
> To be blunt, and with the warmest respect and affection for Gina and some
> other members of the IC, and also with friendly respect for Raphael and
> Carminda who I know a little, as I’m sure all of you would otherwise agree,
> organising something like a Forum has to be deadly serious as well as being
> fun and communitarian, and we all need – here and elsewhere – to get past
> talking about these issues on a casual level, subconsciously muffled by
> friendship and comradeship.  We need to be able to talk about the question
> that has come up on this list – and all the other related issues - in
> simple, substantive, and objective terms.
>
> Now that this question has arisen again, I do hope we can do that here,
> and seriously and substantively.  Let’s see.
>
>             JS
>
>
>  On Apr 5 2015, at 10:46 PM, utopie at ips.org wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I am aware of that, but it should be for an innocuous conference, not gay
> or sensitive issues, like space...and the canadian organizing committee can
> take the responsibility to vouch the legal and financial
> responsibilities.-..but again, canada is a more serious country than
> Italy...but to ask for visas for a world social forum it looks to me as a
> very difficult proposition...certainly the canadian organizing committeee
> can set up something od hoc to get a proforma invitation...if we want to
> chan ge the world, we must take some license from the official
> straightjacket....roberto
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Michael Gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 5 April, 2015 1:02pm
> To: "'Discussion list about the WSF'" <
> worldsocialforum-discuss at openspaceforum.net>
> Subject: Re: [WSF-Discuss] Fw: Montreal Will Play Host To the World Social
> Forum in August 2016
>
>   Roberto,
>
>
> In Canada for that approach to be meaningful (at the borders/consulates
> etc.) it would require a degree of formalization that would very likely
> involve legal/financial implications (risks) for the “sponsoring”
> (inviting) agency, unfortunately. (In the past it has worked occasionally
> worked (and not worked) but on an individual basis.)
>
>
> (A random assortment of recent horror stories from Google…
>
>
>
> http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2014-04-03/article-3674954/Immigration-Canada-cites-lack-of-money-in-denying-woman-a-visa/1
>
>
>
> http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/05/22/ugandan_gay_activists_denied_visas_to_world_pride_conference.html
>
>
>
> http://o.canada.com/news/ottawa-denies-visas-for-heads-of-russian-chinese-space-agencies-to-attend-major-conference
>
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>  On Apr 5 2015, at 10:26 PM, Örsan Şenalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> good thing is canadian and montrealean syudents are setting the scene
> for bringing the struggle against capitalsim in the middle of the
> wsf.. a video from PutinTv:
>
> Canadian cops fire tear gas at student protesters’ faces (VIDEO):
> http://rt.com/news/244505-canada-police-brutality-students/
>
>
>
>  On Apr 5 2015, at 10:23 PM, peter waterman <peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>  Nice one, Utopie!
>
>  P
>
>
>  On Apr 5 2015, at 10:17 PM, Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   IMHO, the pressure points in Canada are more likely to be found in the
> Quebec or Montreal governments than in Ottawa which, even if the government
> does change (hopefully) this year it will require a long time and very
> considerable efforts to unwind the changes (including appointments) that
> Harper and his gang have managed to achieve.
>
>
> The government of Quebec is probably more responsive (for economic rather
> than ideological reasons) and the government of Montreal even more so as
> they are trying to present themselves as a major global conference host for
> economic reasons. Both of these would likely have some influence in these
> areas.
>
>
> M
>
>
>   *From:* WorldSocialForum-Discuss [
> mailto:worldsocialforum-discuss-bounces at openspaceforum.net
> <worldsocialforum-discuss-bounces at openspaceforum.net>] *On Behalf Of *
> utopie at ips.org
> *Sent:* April 5, 2015 9:44 AM
> *To:* Discussion list about the WSF
> *Cc:* Debate is a listserve that attempts to promote information and
> analyses of interest to the independent left in South and Southern Africa;
> Discussion list about the WSF
> *Subject:* Re: [WSF-Discuss] Fw: Montreal Will Play Host To the World
> Social Forum in August 2016
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The best way to get around this is to identify an academic body or a
> pubolic entity ( like a local council), who is willing to send letters of
> invitation to an event in the same dates of the wsf. It would be very
> difficult for any american or canadian consulate to refuse a visa, if there
> is a public entity sponsoring the invitation, and stating that it will take
> care of the invited . This means you have to find somewhere in canada a
> legitimate public entity accepting to emit such invitations only pro forma,
> to facilitate visas. At home, I knows at least a dozens of towns and more
> univerisities willing to do so. But may be canada is a more serious
> country...robertop
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "William Carroll" <wcarroll at uvic.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, 5 April, 2015 12:30pm
> To: "peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com" <peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com>,
> "Discussion list about the WSF" <
> worldsocialforum-discuss at openspaceforum.net>, "Debate is a listserve that
> attempts to promote information and analyses of interest to the independent
> left in South and Southern Africa" <debate-list at fahamu.org>
> Subject: Re: [WSF-Discuss] Fw: Montreal Will Play Host To the World Social
> Forum in August 2016
>  From the belly of the beast (and Canada’s Harper regime IS beastly –
> probably second to Israel among the reactionary governments of the
> capitalist democracies) I can confirm that this is a real worry.  However,
> there is a federal election this October, and it is quite possible that
> Stephen Harper & co. will be dismissed.  Any incoming government would be
> rather different, I think, in its approach to global civil society, WSF
> etc. , shifting from George W Bush-style neoconservatism to something
> closer to Lester Pearson’s liberal internationalism.
> So, I would recommend keeping an eye on this issue and , should the Harper
> regime remain in power in 2016, prepare for the worst, along the lines
> Peter has articulated
> Bill Carroll
> University of Victoria
>
>
>   *From:* WorldSocialForum-Discuss [
> mailto:worldsocialforum-discuss-bounces at openspaceforum.net
> <worldsocialforum-discuss-bounces at openspaceforum.net>] *On Behalf Of *peter
> waterman
> *Sent:* April-05-15 9:20 AM
> *To:* Discussion list about the WSF; Debate is a listserve that attempts
> to promote information and analyses of interest to the independent left in
> South and Southern Africa
> *Subject:* Re: [WSF-Discuss] Fw: Montreal Will Play Host To the World
> Social Forum in August 2016
>
>
>
> Patrick:
>
> Without even asking Gina, who is sitting diagonally from me, one meter
> away, on her own computadora, I can assure you that this question was
> addressed!
>
> That does not, however, mean that we can avoid organising a multi-pronged
> campaign, at all relevant levels, to ensure that the borders are open for
> WSF participants. I would, however, assume that however forceful such a
> campaign and whatever gestures the Canadian state might make, that there
> will be people/countries/organisations excluded. In such cases, there would
> need to be 'name and shame' demonstrations at Canadian embassies,
> consulates - and even companies - around the world. And maybe one should
> warn the Canadians that this will be the case if they refuse visas to a
> global civil society event.
>
> Pw
>
>
>
>    1. 2014. From Coldwar Communism to the Global Justice Movement:
>    Itinerary of a Long-Distance Internationalist.
>    <http://snuproject.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/1987-e-reader-ed-by-peter-waterman-on-labour-social-movements-and-internationalism-the-old-internationalism-and-the-new/>http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism
>    _to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/
>    <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/from_coldwar_communism_to_the_global_emancipatory_movement/> (Free).
>
>    2. 2014. Interface Journal Special (Co-Editor), December 2014. 'Social
>    Movement Internationalisms'. (Free).
>    <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/>
> * <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/>*
>    3. 2014. 'The Networked Internationalism of Labour's Others', in Jai
>    Sen (ed), Peter Waterman (co-ed), The Movement of Movements:
>    <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/>Struggles
>    for Other Worlds  (Part I).
>    <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/> (10
>    Euros).
>    4. 2012. EBook: Recovering Internationalism
>    <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/>.  [A
>    compilation of papers from the new millenium. Now free in two download
>    formats]
>    5. 2013. EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World Social Forum:
>    Critical Explorations
>    http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/
>    6. 2012. Interface Journal Special (co-editor), November 2012: For the
>    Global Emancipation of Labour
>    <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/>
>    7. 2005-?
>    <http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf>
>    Ongoing. Blog: http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.???. Needed:
>    a Global Labour Charter Movement (2005-Now!)
>    <http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf>
>    8. 2011. Under, Against, Beyond: Labour and Social Movements Confront
>    a Globalised, Informatised Capitalism
>    <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/>(2011) (c.
>    1,000 pages of Working Papers, free, from the 1980's-90's).
>
>
>
>
>  On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Patrick Bond <pbond at mail.ngo.za> wrote:
>
> Full support, I know some of the organisers as extremely capable comrades.
>
> But as I recall, the many discussions about Montreal hosting in the prior
> years focused on the border problem: hostility to people from the South
> when it comes to visas, and also to North American activists who have been
> prevented from crossing due to their activist record. The Ottawa regime has
> a fortress mentality. Has that been addressed?
>
> Cheers,
> Patrick
>  On 2015/04/05 04:08 PM, jasper teunissen wrote:
>
> Don't think this was posted already on this list:
>
> http://www.fsm2016.org/en/montreal-will-play-host-to-the-world-social-forum-in-august-2016-2/
> *Montreal Will Play Host To the World Social Forum in August 2016*
>  30 March 2015
> <http://www.fsm2016.org/en/montreal-will-play-host-to-the-world-social-forum-in-august-2016-2/>Non
> classé @en <http://www.fsm2016.org/en/category/non-classe-en/>Van Quoc
> Vinh <http://www.fsm2016.org/en/author/vanqv/>
>  *Montreal Will Play Host To the World Social Forum in August 2016.*
> * Unprecedented in a Northern Country!*
> *Tunis, March 29th 2015:*
> Today, March 29th 2015, it was decided that Montreal would be hosting the
> next World Social Forum taking place in August 2016. Following a meeting
> that took place during the 2015 World Social Forum (WSF) in Tunis, the
> International Council officially confirmed that the next global civil
> society meeting for an alternative world would be held in Montreal.
> According to Chico Whitaker, a founding member of the WSFs, “this first
> Northern World Social Forum is a historical opportunity for us to
> revitalize global social struggles; and all of this will be carried out by
> the passion and idealism of Quebec’s youth!”
> More than 50,000 people are expected to convene in downtown Montreal next
> year for this exciting event. The WSF hopes to become a space for the
> collective construction of solutions to the various challenges we currently
> face (ecological, economic, security, social and political crises).
> Quebec’s youth and its new social movements were able to convince the
> International Council to sign off on the WSF being hosted in a Northern
> country for the first time since its inception in 2001. This surprising
> twist of events epitomizes the importance of alliances between peoples and
> nations in creating a better world for today and tomorrow.
> It is with this in mind that the 12th edition of the WSF aims to
> facilitate Canada and Quebec’s civil society’s contribution to global
> social struggles.
> *About the 2016 Montreal WSF Collective*
> Starting in May 2013, a collective made up of socially-involved citizens,
> as well as more than 140 organizations from syndical, indigenous, feminist,
> international solidarity, community, student and environmental arenas have
> worked together in order to build a strong organizational base for the 2016
> World Social Forum in Montreal.
> *About World Social Forums*
> World Social Forums aim to create a space for the emergence of
> alternatives and debates, as well as for the convergence of struggles
> across the world. The first World Social Forum was held in Porto-Alegre,
> Brazil, in 2001 in reaction to the annual World Economic Forum in Davos,
> Switzerland.
> Raphaël Canet
> Tunis : +216 55 25 55 16 (March 29, 30, 31
> Montreal : 514 883-9594
> Carminda Mac Lorin :
> Tunis : +216 55 255 516 (March 29, 30, 31)
> Montreal : 514 381-7090
> info at fsm2016.org
> fsm2016.org
>
>  _______________________________________________
> ** WSFDiscuss is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of
> information and views on the experience, practise, and theory of the World
> Social Forum at any level (local, national, regional, and global) and on
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> _______________________________________________
> ** WSFDiscuss is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of
> information and views on the experience, practise, and theory of the World
> Social Forum at any level (local, national, regional, and global) and on
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>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ** WSFDiscuss is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of
> information and views on the experience, practise, and theory of the World
> Social Forum at any level (local, national, regional, and global) and on
> related social and political movements and issues.  Join in !**
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________
>
> Jai Sen
>
> jai.sen at cacim.net / jai at openword.in
>
> www.cacim.net / http://www.openword.in
>
>           Now based in Ottawa, Canada (+1-613-282 2900), and New Delhi,
> India (+91-98189 11325)
>
> *RECENT PUBLICATIONS :*
>
> Jai Sen, ed, 2013 – *The Movements of Movements : Struggles for Other
> Worlds*, Part I*.* Volume 4 Part I in the *Challenging Empires* series.
> New Delhi : OpenWord.  *Available
> @ http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/
> <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/>*
>
> *FORTHCOMING PUBLICATIONS  :*
>
> Jai Sen and Peter Waterman, eds, forthcoming (2015) – *The Movements of
> Movements : Struggles for Other Worlds**,* Part 2. Volume 4 Part II in the
>  *Challenging Empires* series.  New Delhi : OpenWord
>
> *CHECK OUT* *CACIM* @ www.cacim.net, *OpenWord* @ http://www.openword.in,
> and *OpenSpaceForum* @ www.openspaceforum.net
>
> *AND SUBSCRIBE TO* *WSFDiscuss*, an open and unmoderated forum for the
> exchange of information and views on the experience, practice, and theory
> of social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional,
> and global), including the World Social Forum.  *To subscribe, simply
> send an empty email
> to worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net
> <worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net>*
>
>
>  --
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> and log in using gmail to access the archives.
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>
>      ______________________________
>
> Jai Sen
>
> jai.sen at cacim.net / jai at openword.in
>
> www.cacim.net / http://www.openword.in
>
> Now based in Ottawa, Canada (+1-613-282 2900), and New Delhi, India
> (+91-98189 11325)
>
> *RECENT PUBLICATIONS :*
>
> Jai Sen, ed, 2013 – *The Movements of Movements : Struggles for Other
> Worlds*, Part I*.* Volume 4 Part I in the *Challenging Empires* series.
> New Delhi : OpenWord.  *Available
> @ http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/
> <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/>*
>
> *FORTHCOMING PUBLICATIONS  :*
>
> Jai Sen and Peter Waterman, eds, forthcoming (2015) – *The Movements of
> Movements : Struggles for Other Worlds**,* Part 2. Volume 4 Part II in the
>  *Challenging Empires* series.  New Delhi : OpenWord
>
> *CHECK OUT* *CACIM* @ www.cacim.net, *OpenWord* @ http://www.openword.in,
> and *OpenSpaceForum* @ www.openspaceforum.net
>
> *AND SUBSCRIBE TO* *WSFDiscuss*, an open and unmoderated forum for the
> exchange of information and views on the experience, practice, and theory
> of social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional,
> and global), including the World Social Forum.  *To subscribe, simply
> send an empty email
> to worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net
> <worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net>*
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ** WSFDiscuss is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of information and views on the experience, practise, and theory of the World Social Forum at any level (local, national, regional, and global) and on related social and political movements and issues.  Join in !**
> _______________________________________________
> WSFDiscuss mailing list
> POST to LIST : Send email to WorldSocialForum-Discuss at openspaceforum.net
> SUBSCRIBE: Send empty email to worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net
> UNSUBSCRIBE: Send empty email to worldsocialforum-discuss-unsubscribe at openspaceforum.net
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> LIST INFORMATION: http://openspaceforum.net/mailman/listinfo/worldsocialforum-discuss_openspaceforum.net
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> ** WSFDiscuss is an open and unmoderated forum for the exchange of
> information and views on the experience, practise, and theory of the World
> Social Forum at any level (local, national, regional, and global) and on
> related social and political movements and issues.  Join in !**
> _______________________________________________
> WSFDiscuss mailing list
> POST to LIST : Send email to WorldSocialForum-Discuss at openspaceforum.net
> SUBSCRIBE: Send empty email to
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________
>
> Jai Sen
>
> jai.sen at cacim.net / jai at openword.in
>
> www.cacim.net / http://www.openword.in
>
> Now based in Ottawa, Canada (+1-613-282 2900), and New Delhi, India (+91-98189
> 11325)
>
> *RECENT PUBLICATIONS :*
>
> Jai Sen, ed, 2013 – *The Movements of Movements : Struggles for Other
> Worlds*, Part I*.* Volume 4 Part I in the *Challenging Empires* series.
> New Delhi : OpenWord.  *Available
> @ http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/
> <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/>*
>
> *FORTHCOMING PUBLICATIONS  :*
>
> Jai Sen and Peter Waterman, eds, forthcoming (2015) – *The Movements of
> Movements : Struggles for Other Worlds**,* Part 2. Volume 4 Part II in the
>  *Challenging Empires* series.  New Delhi : OpenWord
>
> *CHECK OUT* *CACIM* @ www.cacim.net, *OpenWord* @ http://www.openword.in,
> and *OpenSpaceForum* @ www.openspaceforum.net
>
> *AND SUBSCRIBE TO* *WSFDiscuss*, an open and unmoderated forum for the
> exchange of information and views on the experience, practice, and theory
> of social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional,
> and global), including the World Social Forum.  *To subscribe, simply
> send an empty email
> to worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net
> <worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net>*
>
>
> ______________________________
>
> Jai Sen
>
> jai.sen at cacim.net / jai at openword.in
>
> www.cacim.net / http://www.openword.in
>
> Now based in Ottawa, Canada (+1-613-282 2900), and New Delhi, India (+91-98189
> 11325)
>
> *RECENT PUBLICATIONS :*
>
> Jai Sen, ed, 2013 – *The Movements of Movements : Struggles for Other
> Worlds*, Part I*.* Volume 4 Part I in the *Challenging Empires* series.
> New Delhi : OpenWord.  *Available
> @ http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/
> <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/the_movements_of_movements/>*
>
> *FORTHCOMING PUBLICATIONS  :*
>
> Jai Sen and Peter Waterman, eds, forthcoming (2015) – *The Movements of
> Movements : Struggles for Other Worlds**,* Part 2. Volume 4 Part II in the
>  *Challenging Empires* series.  New Delhi : OpenWord
>
> *CHECK OUT* *CACIM* @ www.cacim.net, *OpenWord* @ http://www.openword.in,
> and *OpenSpaceForum* @ www.openspaceforum.net
>
> *AND SUBSCRIBE TO* *WSFDiscuss*, an open and unmoderated forum for the
> exchange of information and views on the experience, practice, and theory
> of social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional,
> and global), including the World Social Forum.  *To subscribe, simply
> send an empty email
> to worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net
> <worldsocialforum-discuss-subscribe at openspaceforum.net>*
>
>


-- 
Carminda Mac Lorin
514-381-7090
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